Interesting attempt, here are some answers from an atheist’s perspective:

1) Why did humans believe blindly in God?

Our brains were, well, not so well wired back when we were still cavemen. If you look at how gods evolved, the original gods were elemental gods, Thunder, Fire etc, that humans were afraid of. Because we didn’t know any better, and we didn’t have the reasoning abilities that we have at our disposal now,the cave dwellers worshipped the natural gods. As societies evolved, more complex gods and pantheons evolved with them, and gods of nature were overtaken by gods of domesticity, which were followed by even more complex gods. In essence, the evolution of gods matches the evolution of human society, and the blind belief can be attributed to the fact that it is simpler to believe and obey, rather than think and reason. You also have to understand that priests and temples are very important power centers, simply because they claim to be the answer of every prayer, and the shortcuts they offer are lucrative, compared to taking the hard route.

2) Why had God forsaken humanity? How could He watch all this mayhem with no reaction? All of us prayed hard and practiced good deeds. Then how come had this world plunged into a blood bath so easily?

There is no god, there is only human instincts and chaos.

3) Why do we pray to God?

Excellent answer. The delegation of ones own responsibility is accompanied by the relief that “I have done as was told, now God will take care of everything”

4) We created God. It was an idea to unite people and instill fear in them to prevent them from slipping into wrong activities.

True. It was/is also a means by which the few exercised power over the many.

5) Invigorate the new generation with the right messages from Ramayana, Bible or Quran.

Yes, but who decides what are the right messages?

“5) Invigorate the new generation with the right messages from Ramayana, Bible or Quran.

Yes, but who decides what are the right messages?”

I would like to expand this a little more. We must all be knowing that ‘sur’ was a alcohol-like drink prepared and consumed by the ancient ppl. It was part of every celebration and ritual in nothern India (Ganges plains, Punjab etc). Well, that was where the names ‘sura’ and ‘asura’ comes from. Suras are those that, in the very ancient times, prayed to and worshipped the ‘New Gods’ vis a vis. Durga, Vishnu, Brahma the likes. And the asuras, those ppl who inhabited the regions south of the Vindhya mountains, worshipped the likes of Siva. Cultures clashed and wars broke out. The victors wrote the history books, demonising the asuras, depicting them with ugly looks, horns and wat not.
This is just an example. I am not saying this is wat has happened, but this is also one of the theories suggested. It clearly shows that the victor decides wat is right and wat is wrong. Well, for wat I know, backstabbing is wrong, leaving a pregnant lady in the forest is wrong, and above all… destruction in the name of some king who lived hundreds of years ago is more than just wrong.

It is the inherent nature of man to look for a support system and somebody to put the blame on.

God is an answer to all these problems.

But killing and conversions in the name of God? Absolutely deplorable

My 2 cents on religion

Religion is a way to instill fear in people and make people stop thinking so that they could be ruled easily. The strategy has worked brilliantly and will continue to work as long as people are insecure, which I don’t see going away in the near future.

Insecurity is built into the system right from when a kid’s born. Instead of teaching him to respect fellow beings, he’s taught to fear God. Man’s taught sacrifice whereas the honest human trait is selfishness. Only a selfish person is pure and honest. Anyone who claims to sacrifice himself for others is a big hypocrite.

P.S If any of you are hurt by my comment, I’d say you are getting defensive. If you believe in something, why do you want others to acknowledge it?

@natrajan – That was the most memorable comment I have read thus far on strat.in apart from Kaushik’s comment on BJP post… Jai Ho!

PS: Do u read Ayn Rand? Probably we can even take this discussion offline

Natrajan, you are bang on

A kid is taught to respect God, be afraid of Satan (or ghosts, whatever) – in fact, he / she tends to downgrade his fellow human beings just to be “closer” to his God or be a “better son / daughter” to the Almighty than his fellow human beings

hi Amit , interesting take …
some early morning thoughts of mine..
As natrajan(hi natrajan, that was definitely more than 2 cents bro.) puts
Religion is a way…….
yes it is…. but was never meant for that…

prayer, faith,religion, n mythological god and goddesses are all ways to set free from the prison of individuality.
( cant explain it in less poetic way.. ) .
Insecurity , point is valid … completely agreed!!
Extending….
Terrorism flourishes when insecurity without hope is mixed with instability and alienation. (beyond national boundries,as ideology)
the god’ s name is used just as an stated umbrella of ideology.eg Islamic .
and by doing so we give them much greater credence and therefore psychological power by terming it so.

It is done in the name of god, but it is more to do with economical imbalances, imbalances in quality of life,security and lack of hope.
The efforts should be made to bring all the people into mainstream economic activity. and building this world to be more economically balanced .
@abhiram bhai :
->There is no god, there is only human instincts and chaos.
This whole universe is very chaotic and full of contradictory forces. All religions at the very core teaches us to embrace that chaos. Some name that state as jannat,some nirwaana,shunayata or eternal life.
itz more about refusing to settle with any answers and keep on searching. Even an atheist person, if satisfied with a definitive concept is a blind man.wat say?

“It is the new generation – atheist, theist or rationalists -that has the responsibility to perpetrate the right messages”

But Amit, are you sure that today’s youth has the capability to grasp and spread the true message of religion? You might say that today’s youth can do great things, built great bridges – but what has been the effort?

There were candlelight marches post 26/11 by youths. How many of them turned up to vote? Most of them blamed the lack of proper implementation of 49-O for their not voting.

They organized the pink chaddi campaign against muthalik, but none could give a satisfactory answer when asked – “Why not School bharo? why pub bharo?”

They organized anit-ragging candlelight marches – extremely good and I support the cause, but how many of them organized anti-Kandhamal, anti-Malegaon and anti-Shopian marches?

The point I wnat to make is that today’s youth can make a difference, but they need proper guidance when it comes to matters of religion. This guidance should not come from madrasas or VHP textbooks or other fanatics, but from their parents and from tolerant religious leaders

Interesting discussion!
Here is a thought about the origin of religion:

- What u all say about the ‘need to find a reason in absence of necessary abilities’ or ‘find an easy way out to ascribe someone for the happenings around us’ or ……Its also important the impact of the concept of religion has done in the formation of society.

- Religion helps forming a axis around which junta of a society hangs. Whether its devotion, fear or awe, it brings a reason for them to get associated.
- With the value additions like devotion or fear, it also attributes to a level of lawfulness in the system (a.k.a society)
- It also helps a society to bring together their heritage and respect to ancestors.

Of course, there should be some other ways to have same effect e.g. teaching moral science. But it should have been proven by then that the most efficient method to teach values is using RELIGION.
Who else instill more fear then GOD?

As a method is as good as its implementor, religion has also acquired both good and bad masters. It is upto us to decipher the underlying concept of religion, then it doesn’t matter where one finds one’s own God.
As the great Kabir has said – “Man changa to Kathauti me Ganga”

@Nattu: Greed is good And true altruism requires selfishness.

@Daan bhai: Good take on religion and terrorism, and quite agree with what you say about blind atheists, but when I said chaos, I didn’t mean chaos in the philosophical sense, but rather in the mathematical sense, where small actions produce long term perturbations in the system. My point was that small things have large long term impacts, and that is what drives people to do things in the name of a belief that might not make sense.

@Amit: Randomness and chaos are two very very different things, and belief in certain concepts does stabilize the entire system, but most such concepts come with riders attached as far as religion is concerned, and its these riders that cause havoc in the name of god. And yes, I believe that it is up to all of us as a society to throw off the shackles of outdated belief systems, particularly when these belief systems seek to subjugate and divide. However, for that, society itself has to progress beyond a certain point.

@Deepak: Religion is an outcome of society, not the other way round, however, both do enjoy a symbiotic relationship at times.

Also, the points that you bring in about the necessity of religion would make sense in societies where the religion and the state are one and the same, however, in societies where this is not the case, its got more to do with a fear of the law rather than a fear of the religion. Also, religion and heritage and respect need not go together, for they are social and cultural phenomena as well, just like religion, in fact, it could be argued that it is quite possible to impart a useful moral compass on a child without using religion at all.

Also @Nattu: reading the responses to this post, I am thinking of doing my “How to Market a God” post that I mentioned to you a while ago.

This is slightly off-topic,but,How many of you ppl are agnostics/atheists ? Can you briefly describe how and when did you arrived at your stand point ?

@Manoj: Atheist, at approximately age 12, I was in a temple, and realized that it all seemed… silly

@Manoj Mathai

Atheist, since I don’t know when. I never believed in the system. I grew more confident about it in IIMC and now I’m sure of it

@Manjoj Mathai – I do not believe in God, but I do deeply believe in my religion, I am proud of it, and do everything in my power to promote it.

And I read the Gita – it gives a sense of tremendous positive energy

@all
dont generalize things..
each and every person is different and what are his/her priorities does matter a lot.

i have never thought much about whether GOD exists or not. but i do believe in the Gita , Mahabharta and Ramayana and there importance in Indian Culture and the devlopment of people (at least in remote villages). There are so many good things to take it from it. If you appreciate some good novels then why dont you appreciate those books. When i was child my Aai( Mother ) used to tell me stories from those books and it has really helped me in positive way.
For people( mainly youths )being atheist is a fashion and considered as sophisticated , like Gandhiji in his early years of England.Read Autobiography of Mahatma Gandhiji The story Of Experients with Truth. He has very good written the approach towards GOD and the importance of Gita.I think after reading it your doubt will get clear but at last we cant generalize things it depends on individual approach.

@jagdish
Finally, an anti – atheistic comment

“Being an atheist is a fashion” ?

Reminds me of a quote from Sam Harris’ book “Letter to a Christian Nation”

“Atheism is not a philosophy; it is not even a view of the world; it is simply an admission of the obvious. In fact, ‘atheist’ is a term that should not ever exist. No one ever needs to identify himself as a ‘non astrologer’ or a ‘non-alchemist’. We do not have words for people who doubt that Elvis is still alive or that aliens traversed the galaxy only to molest ranchers and their cattle. Atheism is nothing more than the noises reasonable people make in the presence of unjustified religious beliefs. An atheist is simply a person who believes that the 260 million Americans (87 percent of the population) claiming to ‘never doubt the existence of God’ should be obliged to present evidence for his existence-and, indeed, for his BENEVOLENCE, given the relentless destruction of innocent human beings we witness in the world each day.”

@jagdish

I never said a word about Gita, Ramayana or Mahabharatha. I personally believe the above epics some of the greatest ever written with Mahabharatha being the most intelligent of them. I love Mahabharatha and the way the characters and the sub-plots are handled. But I repeat myself again, they are brilliant STORIES and I’d love to read/watch them.

@Manoj Mathai

I totally agree with you on that. There should be no word called an ‘atheist’.

@Jagdish: You are assuming that being an atheist means no respect for Indian history or culture. That is a generalization in itself, is it not?

And agree with Nattu, brilliant stories, but no reason to kill for.

@Mathai:

Being an atheist is fashionable.

Actually, given a little survey that was done a while ago in India by ToI, youngsters believe being religious is more fashionable.

@all
I agree with Manoj and Nattu too about the irrelevance of the term atheist. The problem is that this has been forced upon us by believers, who ask us for proof when we argue that there is no God.

In other words, presently, the null hypothesis states that there is a God, and we, the proponents of the alternate hypothesis need to prove that there is none. My argument is that the forming of this hypothesis itself is flawed. It should be the other way around. By saying so, I am just reiterating the Sam Harris comment which says that the onus of proof should be on the believer.

As far as my beliefs go, I think its pretty obvious as to where I stand. I don’t believe in God or religion. But I do consider the Mahabharata and Ramayana as great works in the genres of mythology, fantasy and philosophy.

@believers
In an aside, if there was a God then why would he necessarily be benevolent. If i was God and had all these tiny mortals at my mercy, I’d probably get bored real soon and mess around with some of their lives for a change. But I guess that’s just me. Or maybe the hypothetical God is like a small child who tears off a fly’s wings, just to see what it would do next.

Reminds me of the essay “The perimeter of Ignorance” by Neil deGrasse Tyson. In this he talks about how some of the greatest intellectuals invoke divinity when faced with problems that are beyond the boundaries of their understanding.
http://www.haydenplanetarium.org/tyson/read/essays/nathist/perimeterofignorance

@ Siddhesh

Thanks buddy, would love to discuss this offline.

P.S Sorry for the delay in the reply

@ Siddhesh

I like Ayn Rand’s philosophies but I hate the way she writes. She stops her story in the middle, pushes her philosophy into people’s throats and the reader is forced to gulp it down before continuing with her story.

@ Natrajan
I agree.

Religion and God are not necessarily synonyms

As Jagdish put it – “But i do believe in the Gita , Mahabharat and Ramayana and there importance in Indian Culture and the development of people”

Well, not exactly Ramayan and Mahabharat, but Gita, definitely yes.

Ramayan and Mahabharat basically exposes the true nature of human beings – that sin is present in every man, and so is virtue. It is what we choose to follow that makes us what we are.

Not to forget the fact that they represent an aspect of Indian culture not given in history books – that Indians are amazing storytellers, and that they are capable of producing WMDs

Nowhere they claim to be religious books.