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	<title>Comments on: Of Hybrids and EVs</title>
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	<link>http://strat.in/2009/06/of-hybrids-and-evs/</link>
	<description>strategy, management and all that follows ...</description>
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		<title>By: Anup P. Joshi</title>
		<link>http://strat.in/2009/06/of-hybrids-and-evs/comment-page-1/#comment-565</link>
		<dc:creator>Anup P. Joshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 04:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strat.in/?p=799#comment-565</guid>
		<description>Honda and Yamaha plan to get Hybrid motorbikes by sometime next year. It should be some more time before these companies launch their bikes in India.
On the other hand, in India, last I heard, TVS was making efforts on their hybrid bikes. Not sure when they will get it out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honda and Yamaha plan to get Hybrid motorbikes by sometime next year. It should be some more time before these companies launch their bikes in India.<br />
On the other hand, in India, last I heard, TVS was making efforts on their hybrid bikes. Not sure when they will get it out.</p>
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		<title>By: Manoj M</title>
		<link>http://strat.in/2009/06/of-hybrids-and-evs/comment-page-1/#comment-564</link>
		<dc:creator>Manoj M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Jun 2009 03:55:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strat.in/?p=799#comment-564</guid>
		<description>Any idea when hybrid bikes will be launched in India?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Any idea when hybrid bikes will be launched in India?</p>
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		<title>By: Gaurav choudhari</title>
		<link>http://strat.in/2009/06/of-hybrids-and-evs/comment-page-1/#comment-538</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaurav choudhari</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 10 Jun 2009 05:53:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strat.in/?p=799#comment-538</guid>
		<description>Good article by anup and  grt valueadded comments by vickram, thanks to both of you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good article by anup and  grt valueadded comments by vickram, thanks to both of you.</p>
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		<title>By: Anup</title>
		<link>http://strat.in/2009/06/of-hybrids-and-evs/comment-page-1/#comment-528</link>
		<dc:creator>Anup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 18:03:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strat.in/?p=799#comment-528</guid>
		<description>Thats some excellent stuff Vickram. Thanks for the feedback.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thats some excellent stuff Vickram. Thanks for the feedback.</p>
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		<title>By: vickram</title>
		<link>http://strat.in/2009/06/of-hybrids-and-evs/comment-page-1/#comment-524</link>
		<dc:creator>vickram</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 09:57:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strat.in/?p=799#comment-524</guid>
		<description>Nice summary, Anup. 

A couple of points: 1. the exchange battery pack is not a leasing solution, it is a remodeling of the logistics solution. A full battery is not quite the same thing as a full gas tank, although is may seem so superficially. The total cost of unit electricity delivered in a battery is of course a fraction of the total cost of gasoline, but the concept of a replaceable battery pack changes the logistics of fuel distribution completely. Watch (Better Place) Shai Agassi&#039;s TED talk here [www.ted.com/talks/shai_agassi_on_electric_cars.html].

This is why Tata Motors is also playing* with the idea of a compressed air vehicle, using Guy Negre&#039;s AirCar design (a jv with TM). TM is very silent about progress on this design, but Negre has already announced that at least one European airport has decided to go ahead with AirCar variants (passenger buses, aircraft tractors, passenger ramps etc) for the entire vehicular requirement, to be fulfilled during the next calendar year.

[*I only say &#039;playing&#039;, because TM is so silent about this jv. But that is not untypical of the Tatas, they don&#039;t often adopt the publicity hound approach, despite the Nano PR disaster.]

AirCar variants here need to be designed keeping in mind Indian conditions - as many people, including Agassi, have pointed out, Indians don&#039;t often fill full tanks, so the cost of refueling has to be really low, in order to influence the switch. This could mean very fast compressed air systems (as Negre proposes), or modular battery packs in EVs as well (unlike the single battery pack of the Better Place design). 

Readers also ought to know that EVs have been sold in India for a number of years, the Reva from Bengaluru. Their main drawback is high cost, which reflects the rather irresponsible licensing and tax structure as it currently exists, in spite of the crippling price the country pays to import crude oil and gas. Mahindra&#039;s (M&amp;M) have also been making EV aircraft tugs for decades, but have completely failed to convert this valuable asset of knowhow into a usable road vehicle.

IITB&#039;s IDC has consistently been promoting various EV designs, but none have been taken up for commercial production yet. Some are featured in the newspapers from time to time, once again today, in the Mumbai Mirror (June 9, 2009, pg 6).

2. However, the second thing you could look at is the overall end-to-end system design. All these solutions mentioned above focus on the car itself, and its fuel. Nobody has been looking at roads, which represent an enormous country investment in infrastructure, one that is neither recovered from vehicle manufacturers, nor from the vehicle-using public. The total cost of roads is much more than the cost of tarmac*, of course, since they are disruptive of land use etc. 

*or whatever

Truly excellent vehicles will manage without excellent roads, perhaps with unpaved or no roads. But such designs are not typically seen as yet, and have not attracted any significant support in either VC or academic research.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nice summary, Anup. </p>
<p>A couple of points: 1. the exchange battery pack is not a leasing solution, it is a remodeling of the logistics solution. A full battery is not quite the same thing as a full gas tank, although is may seem so superficially. The total cost of unit electricity delivered in a battery is of course a fraction of the total cost of gasoline, but the concept of a replaceable battery pack changes the logistics of fuel distribution completely. Watch (Better Place) Shai Agassi&#8217;s TED talk here [www.ted.com/talks/shai_agassi_on_electric_cars.html].</p>
<p>This is why Tata Motors is also playing* with the idea of a compressed air vehicle, using Guy Negre&#8217;s AirCar design (a jv with TM). TM is very silent about progress on this design, but Negre has already announced that at least one European airport has decided to go ahead with AirCar variants (passenger buses, aircraft tractors, passenger ramps etc) for the entire vehicular requirement, to be fulfilled during the next calendar year.</p>
<p>[*I only say \'playing\', because TM is so silent about this jv. But that is not untypical of the Tatas, they don\'t often adopt the publicity hound approach, despite the Nano PR disaster.]</p>
<p>AirCar variants here need to be designed keeping in mind Indian conditions &#8211; as many people, including Agassi, have pointed out, Indians don&#8217;t often fill full tanks, so the cost of refueling has to be really low, in order to influence the switch. This could mean very fast compressed air systems (as Negre proposes), or modular battery packs in EVs as well (unlike the single battery pack of the Better Place design). </p>
<p>Readers also ought to know that EVs have been sold in India for a number of years, the Reva from Bengaluru. Their main drawback is high cost, which reflects the rather irresponsible licensing and tax structure as it currently exists, in spite of the crippling price the country pays to import crude oil and gas. Mahindra&#8217;s (M&amp;M) have also been making EV aircraft tugs for decades, but have completely failed to convert this valuable asset of knowhow into a usable road vehicle.</p>
<p>IITB&#8217;s IDC has consistently been promoting various EV designs, but none have been taken up for commercial production yet. Some are featured in the newspapers from time to time, once again today, in the Mumbai Mirror (June 9, 2009, pg 6).</p>
<p>2. However, the second thing you could look at is the overall end-to-end system design. All these solutions mentioned above focus on the car itself, and its fuel. Nobody has been looking at roads, which represent an enormous country investment in infrastructure, one that is neither recovered from vehicle manufacturers, nor from the vehicle-using public. The total cost of roads is much more than the cost of tarmac*, of course, since they are disruptive of land use etc. </p>
<p>*or whatever</p>
<p>Truly excellent vehicles will manage without excellent roads, perhaps with unpaved or no roads. But such designs are not typically seen as yet, and have not attracted any significant support in either VC or academic research.</p>
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		<title>By: Anup P. Joshi</title>
		<link>http://strat.in/2009/06/of-hybrids-and-evs/comment-page-1/#comment-519</link>
		<dc:creator>Anup P. Joshi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 06:21:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strat.in/?p=799#comment-519</guid>
		<description>Thank you!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you!</p>
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		<title>By: Bruce McIntire</title>
		<link>http://strat.in/2009/06/of-hybrids-and-evs/comment-page-1/#comment-518</link>
		<dc:creator>Bruce McIntire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 04:18:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://strat.in/?p=799#comment-518</guid>
		<description>I must say this is a great article i enjoyed reading it keep the good work :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I must say this is a great article i enjoyed reading it keep the good work <img src='http://strat.in/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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